Workers sue to get paid for turning computers on
November 25, 2008 by Sam NarisiPosted in: Employee computer use, Security and law, Special Report
There’s a brand new type of lawsuit employees and their lawyers are filing against companies:
Some nonexempt employees are claiming they should be paid for the time they spend booting their computers up in the morning and logging off at the end of the day.
Many companies use electronic timeclock software that automatically clocks workers in when their computers are turned on. That means there could be time when people are at their desks but not clocked in. It may just be a few minutes a day, but the time adds up.
In the past year, employees have filed suits against several companies, including AT&T, UnitedHealth Group and Cigna Corp., claiming they’re missing out on 15-30 minutes of paid time every day because of the time it takes to boot up and log off.
A half-hour sounds like an exaggeration, but assuming the estimate is true, that equals 2.5 hours every week. If someone makes $15 an hour, that’s $37.50 a week and $150 a month the employee could be owed.
Is booting up ‘work’?
It’ll be up to the courts to decide whether waiting for the computers to turn on counts as work.
The companies say workers spend that time getting coffee or having cigarette breaks. But the employees say they’re performing actual work, like organizing materials, doing paperwork or checking their calendars.
Do the employees have a case? Both sides of the debate have some legal history to bolster their sides of the argument:
According to the Supreme Court, workers must be paid for pre- and post-work activities that are “integral and indispensable” to the employees’ duties — such as putting on and taking off protective equipment (Cite: IBP, Inc. v. Alvarez).
However, the Court also refused to overturn a similar suit in which the employees lost because the activities in dispute were “relatively effortless” and took a small enough amount of time to be considered “de minimis” under the Fair Labor Standards Act (Cite: Gormon v. The Consolidated Edison Corp.).
Depending on how the computer cases are decided, they could effect how many companies track hours for nonexempt employees. We’ll keep you posted on the rulings.
Tags: booting up, computer, lawsuit, pay, shutting down, time
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:30 pm
If this passes…look for your hourly folks to fight over who gets the OLDEST computers now…
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Chris Mann: you made my afternoon! and watch how many folks now run the virus scan on their computers everyday!
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:47 am
This issue is not as trivial as it sounds. I am exempt from overtime but am held responsible for my time. Sometimes when I “clock in” the computer malfunctions and the person responsible the system, when asked for help, says “I donno”. Then I must shut down and reboot until I am able to sign in. The same thing happens in the evening. Since I am in a supervisory position I would lean toward the good of my Company. However, as HR Manager, I feel it is my responsibility to represent not only the employer, but it’s employees as well.
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:48 am
Any wonder why businesses move out of the U.S. and ask for bailouts? Should we pay workers who work from home offices to get out of bed, they have to do that to work. While it may not be as gross as some corporate CEO’s greed, greed is still greed and its killing our competitiveness.
December 3rd, 2008 at 9:08 am
Call me old school - but I beleive that a worker should be at their workstation organized and ready to work (computer already running with all programs opened) at their designated start time. By the way I am hourly!
December 3rd, 2008 at 9:35 am
My comments about the issue of being paid for on and off times booting up computers is it is part of the job. It is doing a task that should be on the companies time not your personal time. From the time you arrive at work you should start getting paid for that regardless what you do while the computer is coming on or off whatever the case might be..you are available for work doing a task that is work related. You need to have the computer on to do your job.
December 3rd, 2008 at 9:48 am
Never mind the time that employees spend gossiping, taking more than the allotted time for smoke breaks, surfing the web, etc, etc … all on company paid time. C’mon, are we REALLY going there? Do you know how much time THAT adds up to? If they get this judgement, can I counter-sue to get back all the non-work time they waste???? If you ask me, it’s a wash.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:08 am
I’m exempt management level, but I do think that an employee should be paid for any time spent working and waiting for a computer to boot up would qualify as working to my way of thinking. It is hard to imagine how that time could add up to more than 5 minutes a day, but I haven’t timed it, so don’t really know. And if you’re an hourly worker, even that 5 minutes a day would equal 25 minutes a week. I always believe it’s better to err on the side of the employee in these kinds of situations.
Sounds to me like there is a bigger problem though. If the culture is such that employees are so concerned about “giving” even a minute of time to the company, the work environment must not be very healthy. In better workplaces, there is enough give and take to make the employee feel like it all evens out at the end of the day…or they even come out ahead a little bit from time to time. When the environment becomes such that the employee is keeping score, something is wrong. That’s the thing that would concern me most if I was in HR at one of these companies.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 am
R.B. hit the nail on the head.
And Heidi, without getting into too much discussion, is that same person clocking out every time they go have a cigarette, or go to the vending machine? In your scenario, this isn’t ‘part of the job’ and they shouldn’t be paid for it. As a corporate HR person, I feel they should be paid for little breaks like this, just like I agree with Ed that they should be at their station ready to work when their shift starts. We have that in our handbook as to most companies. It is all about give and take, and as long as the ee (and the company) feels it is a fair trade, it should be fine.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:18 am
If the employees are on company property doing company business they must be paid. If not, you could not repremand them or fire them for being on company property and misusing company time and/or property while they are on or off the clock. This is a risk management issue. Best left to the courts if management does not understand their job and make the correct legal call. This clearly is an outcome of BAD management.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:20 am
Comment back to R.B.: “Giving” a minute of their time to the company I don’t think applies to this situation. It is part of their job and they should get paid for it. It is time away from families and other things that are important to them. If they want to give time to the company it should be a voluntary thing. You can be assured that the upper management get paid as soon as they walk in the office. I am in an upper management position and for such a little amount of monies as brought out here to make our emploees happy..why not just pay them.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:27 am
I have one question- which one is more beneficial to the company, paying court fees for something so simple, or paying $150 a month and have happy productive employees? Companies like AT&T can afford to pay $150 a month, I wonder how much they are paying out in court fees.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:32 am
Heidi, that’s pretty much what I said…always believe it’s better to err on the side of the employee…and I do think they should be paid for the time waiting for their computer to boot up. All employees should be compensated for their time working, whether it be at or away from their normal place of work. The point I was trying to make was that when employees begin to keep score and feel they are being required to “give” a minute here or a minute there, there’s a much larger problem. If the employee is feeling short-changed in some way and they start keeping score to this extent, the environment isn’t a good one and the underlying problems need to be addressed quickly, along with the specific problems like those discussed in the article.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:34 am
This comment to Chris Mann: I understand what you are saying but why should everyone be docked for those computer minutes for those who are smoking and going to the vending machines
during paid working hours. I have some that don’t do either and those that do have to do it on their
legal break times and they do clock out.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:40 am
Thank you Karl and R.B.
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:56 am
Kim said it ~ my same thought! The average employee wastes 2.5 to 3 hours a week surfing the internet. I say it is a wash also. “Tit for Tat” I say ~ let’s start taking them off the clock for any time spent surfing the net. If an employee walks in turns on their computer it can boot up while they are taking off their coat and putting away their personal items. Come on ~ this is ridiculous! If Hiedi is so hell bent on paying out more money ~ God forbid that we make an employee mad. Why not have the employee turn on the computer at the time they are to start their work day; not 15 minutes prior, and shut down in time to be off the clock when the shift ends.
December 3rd, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Could it be that the root of the problem is that the timekeeping software doesn’t clock the employee in until after the employee has booted the computer, and if that takes a while (say the company hasn’t defragged the PCs and the users aren’t allowed admin privileges to do it themselves, and the PCs do take 10-15 minutes to boot up), then the employee really IS at their desk working at other tasks, but the Network-based timekeeping system insists that the employee isn’t working until after they manage to login. If this describes the case, the company really DOES have a problem. My organization lets us submit timesheets where we say how many hours we worked in various categories. We ‘flex’ our time - if we show up a bit late, we stay a bit late. If we take a short lunch one day, we take a longer lunch the next day. The employees in this instance do have a case!
December 3rd, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Linda, I agree that it is not right for those surfing the net for personal use and getting paid for it..but there are some again that don’t do that. I know some. I think that is a management issue. Their are ways to tract that and control it. And yes I am “Hell Bent” on paying employees for work performed and turning on and off a computer is part of their job. Think about all the money that is wasted by the upper management everyday..in the thousands for personal uses but they have to cut corners with the little guy over something so silly as not paying them for turning on and off a computer.
December 3rd, 2008 at 12:54 pm
If you honestly paid employees for every minute actually working they would lose out becuase of the time that employees waste in non-work related chit chat, internet surfing, smoke breaks, vending machine runs, 15 minute breaks that go 17 minutes (that time adds up), bathroom breaks, the occasional looks out the window, personal telephone calls etc. . .
Employees take much more personal time while getting paid for working than the average computer takes to boot up daily.
If companies are required to pay for this time - you can bet soon the only authorized breaks are the meal period, any net surfing that is not business related will be cause for discipline up to and including discharge, smoke breaks will go away, eating while working will not be allowed in general -
I say let those greedy employees sue - the backlash might just be increased productivity from all that they will lose.
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
I used to work for AT&T (in businesss sales). When we began our shift, our computers were already turned on. We just had to log into them. In our department, we had approximately 12 different systems we had to log into. These ranged from DSL sales system , billing systems for each of the states we service, etc. My point is, The compluter would take 5 minutes to log in, then the additional systems would take another 10 minutes. These systems do not automatically log in, we have to do it manually (so technically we are working). Our phone system was the last thing you would log into…because when you log into the phone system, you immediatley begin receiving calls. You obviously cant tell a caller…please wait 15 minutes while I log into my computer. I fully agree with this lawsuit! I was written up many times for being late to work. I was there 15 minutes before my shift. I was logging into my computer. I finally took my first call 3 mininutes ater my shift began (although I had been there 18 minutes). They called me late. Thier computers were late. I would love to join this lawsuit and seek restitution for my time and harassment!!
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Brian - are you on lunch or the companies time as you read and write on this topic?
December 3rd, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Hmmmm. . . Be careful what you pray for. You just may get it.
December 5th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
HISTORY LESSON- When the FLSA was first implemented, there was a problem with a large number of employees (factory work) waiting to clock in and out at the timeclock at the beginning and the ending of the day. Hence, the 7 minute rule. If a person clocks in at 7 minutes prior to their scheduled time, they are paid as though they simply arrived on time. If a person clocks in at 7 minutes after their scheduled time, they are paid as though they simply arrived on time. The thought being that if they arrived on time, and delayed by their time clock line, then they would be clocked in by 7 minutes after. Many companies apply this rule when calculating time cards today, although most people could clock in right on the time they are scheduled.
So now the time clock doesn’t have a long line, but a long boot up time. Same problem, same solution.
I hear all these people talk about 15 minute boot ups….a little hyperbole…I still have a 386 DX that doesn’t take that long to boot. However, during the boot process, i may have to sign in and enter a password at certain points, and that can be a legthy process, especially if I’m getting donuts and coffee while the computer boots up.
December 5th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
My wife works part-time at the “Evil Empire” Wal-Mart. You can punch in 14 minutes after your start time and you are not considered late. Likewise you can punch out 14 minutes early and are considered to have left on time.
They do not get paid for that time but they clock in before they take off their coats and lock up their purses etc . .